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Forum:Edward and Madagascar
I know weve been through this multiple times, but could somebody, anybody who posses the At World's End video game and or the guide to keeping to the pirate code book please check A: to see if teagues first name is edward and B: if teague was the former pirate lord of madagascar.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 21:37, 22 August 2007 (UTC) *I don't have them, but I'm fairly certain it's pure FANON. Vongchild 22:03, 22 August 2007 (UTC) **Well I got int an argument on wikipedia with a user who just keeps claiming its been sourced but wont provide a link, they seem to think that just making a claim to have found a source is good enough.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 22:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC) :::I know this isn't a lot of help but I'm pretty sure Teague speaks with a South African accent so it's at least plausible. A lot of sources (not canon, but Wikipedia and some sites) say Davy Jones was the Pirate Lord of the 'Scottish Loch's' and Teague was Pirate Lord of Madagascar. I'm afraid we don't have anything to confirm this as canon though. ~~Cajaan Robards; Pirate Lord of Wales~~ ::::Well a source has been provided but it is not an internet source so a link can be provided, we need someone here who is trustworthy to verify.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 21:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC) :::::For some reason, though, I'm under the impression the Lords inherit their title and region from the previous Lord. (See: Elizabeth becomes Pirate Lord of Singapore when Sao Feng dies.) If there are only 9 Lords, it means that Teague and Jones would have had to have passed their position to someone else, along with their region, right? If there's proof against this though, I'm all for seeing it. Vongchild 01:52, 25 August 2007 (UTC) :::::::Check out Teague's talk page the source has been posted there, it needs to be verifyed by someone relable though, as for inherating areas it may be that if there is an unclaimed sea then a pirate lord may abandon there area and take over the unclaimed one, actually the "source" says Teague IS the lord of Madagascar as in still is so maybe he is not a pirate lord of the brethren but a pirate lord in his own right, Davy Jones is pure fanon.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 07:27, 25 August 2007 (UTC) ::::::::I don't think simply inheriting an area is very practical -- okay, it was for Feng/Elizabeth, but perhaps not for other Pirate Lords. If a pirate wishes to become a Lord, he would have to relocate to the area of a previous Lord -- not a great way to operate for people like Ching who already head vast empires and fleets. I'd assume that the areas governed would change with various Lords, but would largely cover the Seven Seas to some degree - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 14:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC) Barbossa notes on the Fourth Brethren Court assembly that 'there hasn't been a gathering like this in our lifetimes'. Does this mean that the First Brethren Court would have been different people to the one that appears in the films? If so this would mean that each of the current Pirate Lords must have 'inherited' their Pieces of Eight from their predecessors (like Elizabeth did with Sao Feng), because it was the Pieces of Eight that bound Calypso at the First Gathering, and the current Brethren Court wouldn't have been around to possess them back then. (Having been no Gathering in their lifetimes.) We already have two 'former pirate lords' (the Unknown Pirate King and Ching's Husband). If nothing condridicts what I've said maybe then we can deduce the others e.g Sri Sambahjee's Predecessor, Gentleman Jocard's Predecessor etc. simply because the Pirate Lord's must have inherited their Pieces of Eight from someone. On the other hand I can respect that this is rather speculative and unclear, so I understand if nobody goes ahead with it, but I would appreciate everyone's thought on this. ~~Cajaan Robards; Pirate Lord of Wales :Yes, the first three Courts were comprised of nine different Lords, with the first having elected the only King until Elizabeth. As for the Pieces of Eight, yes, they're inherited, but that doesn't mean territory is inherited with them. Also, pieces may simply be handed in to the Brethren then reassigned to a new Lord, without any interaction between predecessor and sucessor - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 15:53, 25 August 2007 (UTC) *Yeah, well, when you think about it, Barbossa being pirate Lord of the caspian sea doesn't make much sense seeing as he's an irish pirate with a portuguese surname operating in the Caribbean and Atlantic regions. If he picked his region, wouldn't it make sense to have picked something closer to his base of operation? And the first gathering was probably in the 1500s or so, around the start of trade with the new world. Since the movies are roughly the mid-1700s, it's very, very safe to say Barbossa means it when he says there hasn't been a gathering... yada yada yada. If you look at the regions the pirate lords are connected to, they are historically famous regions of pirate activity. And if the brethren only met thrice before World's End, and people didn't live all that long back in the 1700s (barring supernatural immortal pirate curses, which seem all too common in the filmverse,) I highly doubt that they just "handed them in and reassigned them". They're probably passed or stolen, along with the title, from captain to captain (Kind of like the Dread Pirate Roberts.) It doesn't make sense that if you kill the pirate lord of point A, you become the pirate lord of point B, because then point A no longer has a pirate lord. The regions are probably much broader than the wording implies. Vongchild 21:33, 25 August 2007 (UTC) **Nevermind, someone posted this over in the Teague talkpage: "This has been taken from Pirates of the Caribbean: The Pirates' Guidelines Chapter 1, page 7, paragraph 2, line 12. Sentance 5 on lines 10-12: "...Barbossa maintained that only a Pirate King could declare war and this was confirmed by Captain Teague-the Pirate Lord of Madagascar and Keeper of the Code I know this probably isnt good enough in the eyes of the wiki, but seeing as its a book an internet link cant be provided.--172.189.8.158 16:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)" Is it ever stated anywhere that there are only nine pirate lords, or just that there are only nine involved in the binding of Calypso and included on the brethren? I know this contradicts some of what I've said earlier, but I'm starting to think we've been overlooking something here. Vongchild 21:39, 25 August 2007 (UTC) :::Barbossa specifies that "Jack Sparrow is one of the nine Pirate Lords". Seeing as there are officially more than nine locations, we have to assume that they change with each Lord. What if Jack Sparrow had chosen a successor, but had been in, say, Turkey at the time? The successor surely wouldn't move his operations to the Caribbean just so he could be called "Lord of the Caribbean Sea" - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 21:49, 25 August 2007 (UTC) ::::There's no information about Teague being a former lord, though. Is it possible (if purely fanon at this point) that the titles and locations are passed on, but there are more than nine lords? But that only nine of them, the ones with the pieces of eight, actually matter? I mean, so Barbossa doesn't operate in the Caspian sea, but he's still lord of it. Even if Jack's successor *is* in Turkey, he's still lord of the Carribean, since he inherited the title from Jack. The location is part of the title. You're not just a pirate lord, you're a pirate lord OF. So Teague may very well be Pirate Lord of Madagascar, but he's not part of the council of the brethren, so it's all okay. Vongchild 00:46, 26 August 2007 (UTC) :::::Something Jack says in at world's end suggests that teague was at the third brethren court, he says something like youve seen it happen before you were there you survived. Also Vong child I know this is irrelevent but barbossa'a accent isnt irish its west country.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 08:08, 26 August 2007 (UTC) ::::::Okay, sorry 'bout the whole misidentified accent thing (I think I knew that, I just said the wrong thing.) Something else that's been bugging me: Is Teague an immortal curse pirate, perhaps? Because he seems to know an awful lot about the subject and the bit of wisdom he offers Jack seems to suggest personal experience. And it's possible Teague's just been keeper of the code all these years. However, if Barbossa says there are NINE pirate lords, total, the end, and they all attend the brethren court, Teague cannot be a CURRENT pirate lord, so if he's even the pirate lord of madagascar, he's at least the FORMER pirate lord of Madagascar or wherever, having passed the title on to someone else. This argument is starting to make my head hurt. Vongchild 11:29, 26 August 2007 (UTC) :::::::He only passed on his position, not his location -- presumably to Jack, who then became Lord of the Caribbean, although that's purely speculation on my part. And to note, yes, Barbossa does indeed have a West Country "pirate stereotype" accent in the films, but strangely has a heavy Irish accent in the AWE game... - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 14:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC) ::::::::::Well as ive said the title of Pirate Lord may not be unique to the brethren court, obviously when anyone in At World's End talks about the pirate lords there talking about THE 9 pirate lords becaude the film revolves around them, but there may be other pirates who control bodies of water who go by the title of lord.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 19:30, 26 August 2007 (UTC) *These are the facts: There are nine pirate lords; Barbossa mentions them as "the nine pirate lords" (my emphasis) to Sao Feng. Posessing a piece of eight make you a pirate lord. (Barbossa asks those present at the Brethern court to show their piece of eight as evidence that the nine pirate lords were present.) the official Disney website for "At World's End" shows wanted posters for the nine pirate lords (The only lord missing is Jack Sparrow, but there is no dispute over him.) None of the wanted are Teague or Davy Jones. None of the teratories include Madagascar or Scotland. I see no canon information that suports Teague ever being the pirate lord of Madagascar or Davy Jones being the pirate lord of Scotland. (Although some, possably noncanon, sources think that Teauge was the pirate lord of the Caribbean and passed that title onto his son Jack.) - Captain J. Sparrow 20:07, 29 August 2007 (UTC) ::They're almost the facts: The Pirates' Guidelines confirms Teague as Lord of Madagascar, so he at least held that position prior to the meeting, if not during it. If prior, it's possible he passed on his piece of eight to another Lord -- likely Jack -- though if he's still Lord of Madagascar, it could be that there are additional, perhaps lesser Lords controlling countries and islands, while the nine lord it over seas - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 20:45, 29 August 2007 (UTC) :::That was my conclusion as well, theres no point arguing over wether or not teague was lord of madagascar or not because its been confirmed (i think) we may not like it buts its offcial. Also the book stated that teague IS the lord of madagascar suggesting that he still is, as ive said before nothing suggests Davy Jones was the Lord of the Scottish locks or the Welsh esteries or whatever, so until anything official states otherwise we should leave jones out of the equation.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 10:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC) *I thought somebody had called Jones the pirate lord of Scotland in this duscussion, so that's I adressed it. The movie ony calls Teague the keeper of the Piratea Codex. I never read The Pirate's Guidelines, so I am taking your word that the information is accurate. Teague is not of the nine pirate lords, so if he is lord of Madagascar, it's probably a self-appointed title, or a position that the PotC franchise has yet to adress. On the other hand, it could be that The Pirates Guidelines made a mistake in calling Teague a lord. It is possable because movies are higher canon than the books, and the movie does not support or deny the book info. (I'm bringing this up for the sake of discussion.) Is there any other source that would shed light on this question? - Captain J. Sparrow 14:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC) ::Yes, the movie neither supports nor denies it, so we have to take it as canon; only if there's a clear contradiction do the movies override the books. Teague is Lord of Madagascar, which means there are more than nine Pirate Lords, though only the nine carry pieces of eight. IMO, the distinction lies between rule over a country (Teague) and a sea (the nine) - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 18:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC) It has been suggested in AWE that Teague is quite old... possibly he was a Pirate Lord in one of the earlier Brethren Courts and passed his piece of eight on to a successor, but later on no-one challenged his right over the territorry. This would explain why he's not one of the official 'nine' of the Brethren Court, but is still a Pirate Lord. Or as someone said, maybe it's just the 'nine' that control the seas.Bartholomew 09:23, 31 August 2007 (UTC) :I kinda think that the term "pirate lord" only refers to the nine. But I could be wrong. However it seems that the reson we think Teague is a lord of some sort is because The Pirates Guidelines refers to him as such. Is it possable the book made a mistake, and Teague shouldn't be called a lord? - Captain J. Sparrow 14:58, 31 August 2007 (UTC) ::We don't know, so we have to trust it was intentional - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 15:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC) :::1)I think, a new Lord inherit both the title and the region because: ::::If a new lord coud choose his region, Elizabeth would have had to choose her after receiving her piece of eight from Sao Feng. ::::Only five of the nine(ten) Lords operates in “their” realms. ::::The ONLY pirate who ever operated in the Caspian sea was Stenka Razin, who was a contemporary to Henry Morgan and Bartholomeo Português, e.g. could have been at the firsr Bretheren as the first Lord of the Caspian sea. :::2)It is possible that the title “Pirate Lord of Madagascar” was created later, at the second or third bretheren (as Madagascar became a pirate base only in the late 1680s). It presumbably “connected” with the Pirata Codex instead of a piece of eight, and the region is an Island instead of a sea in order to distinguis the Lord of Madagscar from the “real” lords. El Chupacabra 12:13, 3 September 2007 (UTC) ::::::I really like your explanation. It seems like it sums up everything we've said already but makes more sense than the rest of the thread combined. Vongchild 18:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC) :See my comments here (near the bottom of the page) for my explanation as to why Teague cannot possibly be a Pirate Lord.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 11:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC) I'm going to throw in something else to consider with the whole "inheriting" thing. On the second World's End DVD, there is information on the members of the Bretheren Court. By choosing Jack's piece of eight we are told it was one of the first things he STOLE as a pirate. I can't link to it anywhere, but someone else could check it out to make sure I interperated correctly :P --PunkPirate 00:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC) :Well, as said earlier, yeah, they don't inherit the Piece of Eight. BlackPearl14 03:01, 23 November 2007 (UTC) ::Found something on the back of the Scene Selection list of AWE stating answers to questions moviegoers had about the movie. It says that at some time in the past, the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea passed his Piece of Eight to Barbossa. This type of lordship gain was obviously already proven when Sao Feng gave Elizabeth his Piece of Eight. So, two down, 7 to go. Bastain 05:24, 14 December 2007(UTC) :::Obviously the mere possesion of a Piece of Eight makes you a Pirate Lord, it's unimportant how you recieved it. That's interesting, this would mean that Stupid Barnaby was tecnicaly a Pirate Lord when he stole Sumbhajee's Piece of Eight. Should we include it? El Chupacabra 13:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC) :Here's my thoughts on the issue. Teague is called the Pirate Lord of Madagascar because thats were he operated during his time as a Priate lord. It's like with Sao Feng. He was the Pirate Lord of the South China Seas, but is refered to as the Pirate Lord of Singapor in the film. Perhaps Teague had been the Pirate Lord of the Indian Ocean (since that"s were Madagascar is located)during his time as a member of the court, but was called the Pirate Lord of Madagascar because that was were he spent most of his time or where his pilaging was centered. Then he ritired to shipwreck cove and became keeper of the code.-POTCFAN personaly i think that the former lord will pass down his piece of 8 to the new lord but the new pirate lord will stake a claim on a certain area (caribbean, atlantic,etc) which means barbossa might have chose the caspiaan because thats were he started his career and he couldnt have chosen the another sea even after he started pirating there because it probably belonged to another pirate lord by the time he got there and was therefor unavailable. As for teague, he might of handed over his peice to Jack, but jack had no intrest in having a career in madagasgar so he settled in the caribbean and because no one took madagasgar, teague still has a claim over it until a valid pirate lord takes it from him Captain McSilver 02:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC) :First of all, how would one get their post to appear in paragraph form instead of this annoyinly long line?! Second of all, the way I see it, it makes more sense for there to be a set of unchanging territories. The first court most likely created theses territories so that the nine lords would have their own areas to govern and rights over the goings on of said territories. If each new lord claimed their own territory after recieving a Piece of Eight, then it would lead to some areas being unsupervised be the Court. Since the binding of Calypso was done to place control of the ocean into the hands of mankind (particularly the pirates of the time), then it seems that the court would have wanted to make sure that no area of the ocean was left ungoverned, since the responsibility now fell to them. However, I agree with the idea that Pirate Lords of a a particular land area could change there names in that the area attached to there name could change depending on were they operate. As far as Teague being Pirate lord of Madagascar, it could be that this is what he became known as and, though no longer an active Priate Lord, this was what he was know as by the court. It would be like if he were called "Teague the Fearless", not necessarily an official title, but something associtated with him if, as I stated above, Madagascar was the place were he operated during his time as an active Lord. 21:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)POTCFAN ::Actually, the pirate Lords (as they were shown in the films) were not "supervising" or "governing" their areas. In fact, the only "offical" result of being a Pirate Lord is the right to take part at the Brethren Court meetings and vote for a Pirate King. I think that the whole terminology of Lords of certain areas is just a pun of the system of titles used by the aristocracy at that time, this would fit in with historical facts since pirates liked to make fun of official titles, ceremonies and customs. El Chupacabra 06:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC) It seems to me that they could easily mock the english system of Lords without the use of locations attached to said titles. The inclusion of locations seems to imply some degree of supervision at the least over the piracy in those areas. You are correct in saying that as far as the films show, the only result of being a lord is the privilage of taking part in the court. But it is not denied in the films the possibility of the lords having some measure of control over said regions. After all, both Sao Feng and Mistress Ching had extensive influence in the areas they controled. We also know that Villanueva, Jocard,& Ammand were all part of, if not controlling, large organizations (The Spanish Treasure Fleets, The New Orleans Pirates, the Barbary Corsairs.) Plus , by having nine specific areas of the ocean for the nine lords to oversee, it settles the question of whether or not Teagues title as a pirate lord implys the existence of more lords than the original nine (see my comments above). 13:37, 17 June 2008 (UTC)POTCFAN :It is not entirely impossible they originally intended to cremake the Lords supervisors of their areas, but since we don't know the full text of the Pirates' Code, we cannot proof or refute this definetly. However, as to what we've seen in AWE , they are not "supervising" thier areas on behalf of the Court, only Sao and Cing ahave some kind of controle over thir realms, the other lords are not controling their ones or not even present there and Ammand, Villanueva and Chevalle are even fighting each other, so the whole idea of Pirate Lords supervising their areas is (as by now) purely speculative. El Chupacabra 10:59, 2 July 2008 (UTC) First, I would like to reiterate that I hate this long line. Second, I agree that, until another canonical source gives more information on the Lords and their land, we can do no more than spectulate. But I just thought of something that may play a part in all of this. I believe that I read somewhere that the globe that the Lords plunged their swords into symbolized both peace amoung the Lords during the duration of the meeting (which did not really stop them from breaking out into fistfights) and their right to pillage the seas. This could imply certain rights over their areas or just sybolize their communal right to engage in piracy all over the world. Anyway, I just thought I'd throw this into the mix. But I agree that we need more information to come to a definite conclusion. 20:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)POTCFAN Stop putting a space before your post. - –K.A.J•T• • • 07:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)